Quest Outdoors

BuzzFloatman · Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 1:44 pm Post subject: 40 pound Rainbow!!!

Here is the link:

www.manitoulin.ca

It looks like a mammoth Croaker to me, any opinions out there?

Buzz

MPsteelheader · Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 3:19 pm Post subject:

now thats a bohemoth!!!

was that out west or here in the great lakes??

BuzzFloatman · Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 3:34 pm Post subject:

It's GL fish, from Georgian Bay. I posted my 2 cents about it on another site:

My guess is it is a "Croaker". It's the name give to the farm raised trout that an Indian tribe in Cape Croaker, Ontario had been raising, they are supposedly a Rainbow/Cutthroat Hybrid. It was a poorly run operation, lots of fish were escaping from the net pens and the Ontario MNR believes they may have released close to half a million fish in five years! This operation has since been shut down but these farm raised fish are all over the Ontario side of Lake Huron and Georgian Bay. You can't miss them - most of the fins are either missing or deformed from the net pens, they are short, fat and dumb, and they are REALLY good to eat. When I go over there to steelhead fish, we get them in the rivers and they are all over the Georgian Bay shoreline

Some of the Ontario crew on this site can probably add more to this.

Have a good one...
Buzz

PEte · Lunker Joined: 09 Dec 2004 Posts: 396 Location: Ontario

Eric · Lunker Joined: 06 Mar 2004 Posts: 277

IMO- Unless there's a new forage base called "Trout Pellet" I'm doubting that the GL ecosystem could produce a fish that could eat that much that quickly.

Hey, what float rod would you recc for a 40lb chromer Wink

BuzzFloatman · Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 9:53 am Post subject:

Pete,

Thanks for the info. I have read that California is big into the Triploid Rainbows for some of the reservoirs out there. Big, ugly fish....

It will be interesting to see if the MNR admits it's an escaped farm raised rainbow. I know how much they love farm raised/hatchery fish. It sure looks like one, I've never seen a steelhead shaped like that.

Have a good one!
Buzz

PEte · Lunker Joined: 09 Dec 2004 Posts: 396 Location: Ontario

Well there was a genetic sample taken, and at some point the aquaculter fish may get genotypes... then we'll know for sure!! Besides that the scales should also tell the story.
OOOPssss and lets not forget the finware on the beast!
PEte

BuzzFloatman · Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 7:30 pm Post subject:

PEte,

What are the chances the MNR actually tells the truth if it is proven to be a farm fish? I know how much they loathe any hatchery/farm fish, having a farm raised stray become the Canadian record would just fry them.
My buddies I fish with on the Geen and Maitland all can't stand the MNR up there. They all belong to the Lake Huron Fishing Club and have petitioned the MNR for years so the club can be allowed to raise and release steelhead smolts - the answer is always NO. I can only imagine how good those fisheries could be with some hatchery enhancment using native brood stock. Some government agencies get it, some do not.

The outcome of this will be VERY interesting...

Buzz

bt · Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 10:39 pm Post subject:

Hmmm..... personally I think the OMNR definitely "gets it".

As a lifelong Ontarian [and 40 yrs. of Steelie chasing] , I don't always agree with the OMNR, either. BUT in this case , what's wrong with wild fish? I certainly don't want to see stocked fish in those two watersheds. I can go [and do go] to NY, PA, OH or MI and catch cookie cutter fish by the bushel-full if I want. It's actually great to see that the OMNR is committed to maintaining wild fish in this Province, the other GL's jurisdictions obviously are not.

Stocking is not always the answer. Even with brood stock directly from the source, how do you select the Michael Jordan's from the Peewee Herman's. Let nature determine the survival of the fittest. Why dilute strains that have taken decades to evolve and adapt to those particular environmental niches ?

It's not always about numbers. I'll take quality over quantity, any day. Buzz, it's like the wild fish of the Gold vs. stockers in the Stamp. Which did you say you prefered ?

Oh btw, the Lake Huron Fishing Club runs a Catch & Kill Derby - what does that tell you.

BuzzFloatman · Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 8:35 am Post subject:

bt -

Don't lump MI in with OH, PA and NY as far as hatcheries go. OH, PA and NY all dump HUGE numbers of hatchery fish into their respective waters due to the stream quality not being condusive to any significant natural reproduction. Here in MI, we use WILD brood stock from the Little Manistee River - these aren't the "cooker cutter's" you refer to. See the link below for info on what we do here:

http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10364_19092-51534--,00.html

We only have a few rivers in the lower penninsula that produce enough wild fish to sustain a viable fishery. Our DNR plants fish in just about every trib flowing into Lake Michigan and the major tribs flowing into Lake Huron (and one in Lake Eire). Why do they do this? To PROMOTE the fishery in all areas which in turn PROMOTES tourism. You claim to come to this state and fish, did you buy gas, food and a license when you came over? That is the point your MNR misses completely.
It would be VERY easy to obtain WILD BROOD stock from Denny's Dam to raise hatchery fish with - kinda like our Little Manistee set-up (see above). Our hatchery program has worked so well and has produced such an adaptable strain of steelhead that we have been supplying Ohio with eggs for a number of years now. Once Ohio went to this strain, their fishery has taken off.
I meet lot's of anglers every season that come over from Ontario every season. Why? Because your MNR closes the best stretches of your rivers and limits where and when you can fish. We don't have that problem on the VAST majority of our best rivers. When it comes down to it, people want to catch fish, lots of them when possible and fish where they want when they want. If the steelheading is so great Ontario, why do you go elsewhere?
Wild fish are great and should be protected, but not EVERY stream is capable of producing enough fish to sustain a quality fishery. Protect and maintain the streams that produce FISHABLE numbers and plant the others with WILD brood stock. You don't need to go overboard like PA, but there is room for improvement in Ontario.

Here is my EXACT take on Vancouer Island:
"I'd go back to the Gold in a hearbeat but not the Stamp. The lodge and the people at the Stamp were great but the fishery left something to be desired. I just have a problem spend the kind of money it takes to get out there and fish the same holes over and over again for mostly hatchery fish. If live out west and want to rack up some numbers, then this would be a better destination."

The Gold is a BEAUTIFUL stream, but it is cyclical due to it's all wild nature. The Stamp is not very scenic but full of fish thanks to their hatchery. My point about the Stamp is, I can stay home to catch lot's of hatchery fish without a lot of scenery (see 6th street Dam in Grand Rapids).

If you have any issues with me, than PM me. I'd be glad to discuss them there than take up more space here.
Buzz

PEte · Lunker Joined: 09 Dec 2004 Posts: 396 Location: Ontario

Woodsie · Lunker Joined: 24 Nov 2004 Posts: 155 Location: Toronto

I'm with Buzz here. There's plenty Ont MNR could learn from our neighbours to the South:

Stocking more fish where natural reproduction is low for one. How many bows do you think we'd be catching at the Niagara without US stocking?

Reduced limits.

Ban night fishing (where do you think most of that garbage and empty beer bottles strewn around our river banks comes from?).

Ban ice fishing for staging winter bows in the rivers. Not only unsafe for anglers to be on the river ice but a true slaughter ground for vulnerable pre spawn fish.

Ban the use of roe for chumming.

That's just a few. US Great Lakes management of the resource is light years ahead of us this time.

PEte · Lunker Joined: 09 Dec 2004 Posts: 396 Location: Ontario

Woodsie · Lunker Joined: 24 Nov 2004 Posts: 155 Location: Toronto

Just expanding on the already off topic thread. The original thread was regarding the 40lb Croker, remember?
Yes, the US states benefit from good stocking numbers. Yes, the Ont MNR with it's refusal to "make rules more complicated" or act in any kind of pro active manner is the biggest challenge our steelhead fishery faces.

PEte · Lunker Joined: 09 Dec 2004 Posts: 396 Location: Ontario