Quest Outdoors

Defjam · Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:21 pm Post subject: Center Pin & Line Twist

I was curious, as I am new to centerpinning, if the sidecast method will always produce line twist regardless of line type? How about the same question with the spinning side cast? Thanks all! Bow Buster....floats for sale? Wink

Bow_buster · Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 4:13 pm Post subject: Learn the Wallis cast

DJ,

I will suggest you learn the Wallis Cast. It really isn't that hard just requires some feel (like casting a baitcaster). If you want I might be able to show you how it's done. Email is bbcustomrods@hotmail.com. It's easier to show than to explane.

Randy

Chromebuck · Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 9:28 am Post subject:

In response to this subject I will add several things. If you Google Wallis casting there are at least two videos that can be downloaded and viewed for understanding the mechanics of traditional English style Wallis casting.

Personally, unless your fishing small tributaries or ditches I wouldn't bother learning this method as it is not intended for distance. It really relies more on the loading of your rods tip and most US/Canadian float rod tapers are not designed with this in mind. The ratings of English rods are based on this idea of "test curve" which means how many pounds it takes to bend the tip 90 degrees to the butt.

To anwser your question directly on spin casting. It is thought that a spinning sidecast will decrease line twist by 60%.

However nice and informative this site is it is definatley remiss on explaining the types of casting techniques that exist. That is, there are at least four other styles of casting that are not shown on this site and all of them eliminate line twist.

Pull casting is a method of spincasting that requires serious timing and practice, but eliminates twist problems. Its essentially the spinning side cast without letting the line feed off the face of the drum/spool.

No name cast or I call it the pay out cast, which is were you engage the spool and let line pay out onto the ground in front of you and once you feel you've got enough out you let it fly. Obviously all the slack line that paid out will very quickly fly through the guides and since the spool is already in motion the cast will continue off the spool for some distance. One of the craziest and well known Canadian floaters (Steelheadwayne) employs this technoque for all his long distance cast.

Another "no namer" that I've used with some success and distance is a technique where in the furthest point of my back swing I engage the spool by one of the handles with significant force and at the same time I come forward with the rod and the line flies off the spool just like casting a levelwind. This can only be accomplished if the whole motion is fluid though. Neat cast no twist!

BC style casting. Think of a level wind style of cast and apply that to a centerpin. The only difference seems to be that the spool is put into motion on your back swing so that the start up isn't from the still position. It is an awfully difficult cast that once perfected is the most appreciated and admired technique on the west coast. Soon to be here too! Hehehe!

Hope this was helpful and informative.

CB

Big Fish Addict · Adult Joined: 12 Apr 2004 Posts: 93

I'm new at 'pinning but I have a book titled "Whiz kids Fishing". It's a book from the UK. I got it in the second grade from my teacher who knew I loved fishing.

Chromebuck's "pay out" cast is the one listed in the book...That's the one I learned to do...It definitely takes a lot longer to cast than a side cast because you have to first peel the amount of line off the reel before you cast. It also can get snagged up in twigs and stuff on the ground if you don't hold the line. Other than that it's pretty easy to learn (10 minutes for me) and it doesn't cause line twist.

The instructions from the book are:

1. Hold the rod across your chest with your right hand. Release the ratchet (I'm assuming they mean clicker)

2. With your left hand, strip off a loop of line from the reel. Lift the rod to increase the size

3. Do this until you are holding several loops of line, then cast out over your chosen spot

4. Release the loops when the line is fully extended. Unless you are trotting put the check on (I'm assuming they mean put the clicker on when you finished your cast)

I wouldn't mind scanning the pics if someone out there wouldn't mind posting them for me...I never liked computers and technology

Hope this helped

Defjam · Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2004 12:58 pm Post subject: Thank you!

I appreciate the time that it took you to respond to my question. I will try to utilize some of the methods you mentioned. I have mastered the sidecast now and I am working on improving (above 8 out of 10) cast using the spinning sidecast method. I have notived that there is an extreme amount of line twist with the first method and significantly less with the spinning side cast. I will attempt to try the others that you have mentioned. THANK YOU AGAIN!!!

Snowmonkey · Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2004 9:50 pm Post subject: RE Other casts...

As far as the "paying out line cast" I believe that one actually has a name, I just don't know it offhand. You just have to watch for items on the ground that may catch the line (ie...twigs, wading boot lace hooks, etc) when doing that one. It might look ridiculous, but a stripping basket wouldn't be a bad idea if you like that cast (?). Personally, though, I don't know anybody who uses that one much, but I may have to play with it a bit more for distance applications.

As far as casting directly off the spool like a baitcaster, I was initially (and erroneously) introduced to that cast as the Wallis cast. It does work alright, but I have found much less precision/control vs the spinning side cast (or Wallis cast) with it. Also, like the Wallis cast, it's not a great choice when any kind of distance at all is required, but is a viable choice when fishing smaller streams.

All in all, as suggested, play with the different techniques and see which ones suit your liking. Personally, I do the spinning side cast 90% of the time...but am using the Wallis more and more when I fish smaller streams.

ASM

BrianD · Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 8:18 am Post subject: Casting Styles

Chromebuck,
after reading through your post I'll have to agree that the site's pretty thin on centerpin casting info. We'll definitly be working on that in the near future.

Maybe we don't do a great job of communicating this, but we're always looking for article ideas AND authors for the website. The site is basically built and written by 3 guys (who love to fish) in our spare time. It's always a struggle to keep the site working well and write new content for it. Sooooo, if you ever have the bug to write a centerpin article for the site, we'd love the help. Or, if writing isn't your thing, we're always keen on tapping into the experiences of others and doing articles together.

Finally, a few of the centerpin specific happening on the site... We've got an article on turning your own balsa floats contributed by Randy Gerrick (thanks Randy!) that should be up in the next few days. Also, I'll let the cat out of the bag here..., we're in the process of putting together a centerpin clave styled after some of the spey claves in the area. We're hammering out a location and dates now and working on getting a few sponsors and lecturers (sp?) on board. Tenatively we're looking at mid July on Michigan's west side (probably Big Man). Should have more details very soon! Exciting stuff!

Thanks for your time guys. Sorry about the rambling! BTW, has anybody been fishing lately? The reports forums are pretty slow!

Brian

BrianD · Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 8:31 am Post subject: Scanning and posting pictures

Hey Big Fish,
interesting stuff! As for posting pictures, if you can figure out how to scan a picture you can definitly post them. With the new forum upgrade it's really easy!

At the bottom of the new post/reply screen look for a button that says "Add an Attachment", right above the "Submit" and "Preview" posts button. Click on the button and it will add to new fields to the form. One is a button that says "Choose File". Clicking on it will open a standard open file dialog and you just pick the file you want! You can ignore the comment field if you wish. If you want to add additional pictures, just click on the "Add an Attachment" button again. You can upload most graphics formats in any reasonable size. No need to worry about a file being to big or making a seperate preview image or uploading and linking files, etc.... The new forum takes care of all that gory stuff for you. Just tell it which picture you want posted!

Alternately, feel free to email the files to us and we'll be happy to post em up for you.

Also, just an FYI, I just fixed the language filter on the board to quit blocking words like ASSume, etc...

Best,
Brian

Big Fish Addict · Adult Joined: 12 Apr 2004 Posts: 93

I scanned the picture and when I went to submit it, I received a message saying "The Attachment/Image must be less than 640 pixels wide and 480 pixels high"...Can I mail it to someone through hotmail or sympatico?

Chromebuck · Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2004 10:03 am Post subject:

Brian,

Perhaps the use of the word remiss was a bit stronger than I had actually intended. This is actually a very nice site that has some descent information to get a newbie going...It has a great design and informative videos and reviews.

I do enjoy writting and actually last month I lectured on floatfishing at a Grand Rapids Chapter of Michigan Steelheaders. My time is very limited currenty and this summer will prove to be another break-neck schedule with work, twelve big lake(Lake M.) tournaments, 10 days in Alaska, four days sampling the North Shore of Superior for the Ministiry of Natural resources, and a couple of weekends always set aside for the St. Marys!
Perhaps next winter I could contribute an article or two. Or even a make a couple of videos of different casting styles? I can even do it with a Hanson reel to stay in cahoots with your sponsors....LOL! BTW, the guy I'm sampling Superior steel with is an excellent BC caster with his Hanson reel so maybe I'll record him this spring and contribute that if your interested. Distance with accuracy, he's an exceptional talent!
I like your site and will continue to monitor this board. Feel free to drop me an email sometime....

Snowmonkey, If you've never seen a BC style cast, which is truly off the reel, you've got to check it out. Personally I would compare a Wallis cast more to flicking a bugger than a true BC cast. Picture in your minds eye a cast that is somewhat of a hybrid of a sweeping spey cast while using a 3/4 oz. KO Wobbler coupled with the smoothness of a Calcutta 400 TE. Now you make that a 5500D Ambassadeur and you watch a blurr of handle spinning around as your line is going out and your more in the ball park. A Wallis cast comes of the reel, true, but with very little forward motion initiated by the angler.

As far as pay out casting goes it is best done from a pier or out of a boat. It seems rather obvious that this would not be the cast to employ in the mist of a red osier dogwood stand. However it can be a great cast when there is no room at all for a backcast due to undergrowth.

Here is a 48lb fresh hen tyee taken on an older Islander Pacific Steelheader with 40lb braid. Karl and Leon advised me that the Hanson may be a bit light for such application. The rod was a 10'6" Shimano Convergence.