Quest Outdoors

Basswishes · Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:24 pm Post subject: Talon Spey rod question

I am looking for any info anyone may have on Talon rods. Been to the website and it is no help.
I impulsively purchased a 12' 8 weight traditional action rod on ebay way back in spring. The seller informed me that it was an older model from the loomis/talon days when they were manufacturing rods together.
The original price was on the rod when I recieved it and was listed for 498.00.
It has a burgandy finish, and I believe it may be IM6, 4 piece, and has very nice reel seat and stripping/snake guides.
Has anyone even seen or know of such an animal?
I had no idea what traditional action was at the time and if you see me in action with it, look out! I'm everywhere except in the water.
Wondering if I got duped or I just don't know and/or don't know how to use this rod?

BrianD · Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:39 pm Post subject: Talon Spey Rod

Hey Bass,
not real familiar with the Talon rods, but my first question would be what line have you matched it with? Picking the wrong line can render a perfectly good rod close to useless!

Also, did you get any sort of instruction, or did you just hit the river? While getting a serviceable spey cast is not incredibly difficult or anything (although you wouldn't know it by my casting!) it is different from fly (meaning overhead) casting. It may be that you're just missing one or two basic but important principles.

Best,

Brian

Basswishes · Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 8:47 pm Post subject:

Brian,

I picked up the Mel Kreiger DVD and I bought the SA Mastery series xlt spey line. Went to the park several times to practice and thought I was doing ok, until I hit the river and what a mess that turned out to be. All my single handed rods are fast action and was able to spey cast better with those using the SA steelhead line. It is quite possible that I may have been losing sight of anything I picked up off the DVD in a live situation, focusing more on the fish rather than my casting. I just recently gave it another go and was bummed out again.
Perhaps if I were to pick up a fast action spey rod I may do better !?! The traditional action feels soooooooooo spongey.

Also, do you by chance know of any of the history of Loomis rods or anywhere I could find a little background. Perhaps even someone with some expertise in rod building that i could have take a look at this thing.
I am in Warren, MI.
My email is *address removed*
Your response is appreciated. Thanks Brian
Nicoll

BrianD · Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 9:52 pm Post subject: SA XLT Spey Line

Nicoll,
I think you found the answer on your own! You got "duped", but not by the guy who sold you the rod! (OK, not duped, but not very good advice) The SA XLT spey line is a long belly specialty distance casting line. It really requires some advanced casting skill, and I'd venture to guess it's damn near impossible to manage on a 12'er by almost anyone.

If you've got a 8/9 XLT (with a 95' head!) and you're trying to learn to cast with 80+ feet of line out you're really going to have trouble moving that line around. If you've only got 50' or so outside the tip (a manageable learning distance) than you're seriously under-loading the rod. You're then probably overpowering the forward stroke and making things even worse. The steelhead taper on the other hand will properly load the rod with the head out, and the head is a manageable distance to learn with. The only problem here is that the steelhead taper is basically the exact OPPOSITE of modern spey tapers. The steelhead taper has a regular length front taper, longish belly, and huge rear taper. A short head spey line on the other hand will have a very long front taper, long belly, and very short rear taper (plus be 5-10' longer). Do yourself a huge favor and get yourself a short head spey line like a RIO windcutter or Airflo Delta before you get to down on the rod or spey casting in general.

I havn't seen the Kreiger video but understand it's pretty good. Should give you a decent starting point once you get your line straightened out.

I was considering heading down to the Huron this weekend to practice my casting for a bit (and maybe stick a fish!). I've got a Sage 9141-4 and a Loomis 13' 8/9 GLX. If you'd like to try them out or play with a short head line, you're more than welcome to join me.

Best of luck & stick with it!

Brian

Basswishes · Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 6:33 pm Post subject:

wow, never thought about the line, but then again I don't have a ton of experience in the fly fishing world. sorry i wasn't able to hook up this weekend. sister in town from the south and picking up christmas tree's etc etc etc.....don't tell but i'd rather be fishing. hopefully i can take a raincheck. my buddy and i are discussing going to the pm on the 26 and 27th for one last trip of the year. i guess i am curious where you are fishing on the huron. i have fished under the rainroad tracks an dnear the dam in flatrock.

regarding my overall experience in flyfishing. I am a convert, i learned to flyfish as a kid and gave it up to pursue bass fishing in the late seventies( i am 36) took up salmon and steelheading (driftfishing) in the eighties along with tournament style bass fishing. basically became bored and disenchanted with the people moreso than the fishing. i have switched to flyfishing more over as a challenge to myself. after going strickly lyfishing this past year...whole new respect for casting, i love it...i was a self taught bass fisherman and have been giving a go in the flyfishing world however i would love to expedite my learning curve an d again start catching fish with some consistency.
all comments and advice are appreciated thanks brian
nicoll

BrianD · Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 7:55 pm Post subject: Best laid plans...

Never made it out casting.
Spent the better part of the afternoon wrestling with a new water heater. Hell, how hard could putting in a water heater be??? Doh!

Around the tracks is usually good. Most of my fishing is confined to a mile or so above and below I-75, although the occasional float from Flatrock to the highway is always nice. I've never tried fishing at the dam though.

Huron is definitly not 2-hander water, but the park at I-75 is wide enough for some practice. I was luck enough to stick a nice fish last year swinging a Sol Duc Spey on my 6wt though. Gotta love fall fish!

Best,

Brian

Robert Meiser · Egg Joined: 24 Dec 2004 Posts: 3 Location: Medford,OR. USA

Brian's given you really good advice....

The rod that you've purchased is actually a very sweet two hander.

It has a medium recovery speed, with a full progressive taper and action.

Dewight Wagoner of Talon rolls that blank, and it can still be purchased from Anglers Workshop as a private label.

I have one myself....For about 7 or 8 yeras now !

Your rods is typical of two handers from it's family.... It will require a very slow load response time.

This is not a bad thing, just an acquired skill....... But so is all casting...};^)...!!!

The rod that you have would be easier to deliver with a bit less line then the XLT......And Brian is spot on....I could not imagine a more difficult line for that rod to learn on.

The line wt. and length of that rod should be a fine tool for GLs watersheds, as the rods' soft tip would be very friendly for your fine leader tippet nymphing requirements.

I use mine here on the Rogue only with the dry line, as it makes an excellent high stick nympher/soft hackle swing tool for our very buggy, low water 5 to 12 pound Summer Steelies.

The rod has a huge amount of reserve, and once you learn how to tap into it, she will really launch line like a rocket.....And can defeat fish well into the teens.

Also a great little Scando/Skagit...Touch and go sink tip rod for small rivers.

I would actually suggest the old reliable Rio 7/8/9 Windcutter floater for that rod.

This will get you used to this rod's recovery and action, without discouraging you, and it will fish very well for your small river nymphing.

Once you become more familiar with variuos spey deliveries, you may consider sink tips, as that rod will definitly deliver them.

Practice, practice, practice.....

I also highly suggest Dec Hogan's video.

The instruction in that video has real "River Logic" and is easy to understand.

Meiz

PEte · Lunker Joined: 09 Dec 2004 Posts: 396 Location: Ontario

Bob,
I'm looking for a spey rod for Great Lakes water and with all your knowledge hopefully you can help.... Here's what the application is (for my fishing).

1) Medium to large flows, smallest being the Nottawasaga, largest being the Gennesee/Big Man sized flows.

2) I'm going to fish a variety of flies from egg/nymph to large streamers, potentially tubes for colder water applications

3) I want to run a short head that will turnover quickly- scandinavian style

4) I'll be fishing floating/ as well as some sink tips for cooler periods, but my main objective is certainly not to be dreadging during Jan/Feb.

5) I'm thinking in the 12'6 to 14 foot range

6) I want a stick that allows me to use the entire blank when fighting fish on 8-12 pound test. By this I mean I want to be able to bottom it out around 12-14 pound breaking strength (maybe a 7/8 or a Cool

. I find the 8/9s to be too much for my purposes.

Thanks for any help you might be able to provide
PEte